From owner-i_see@indiana.edu Wed Dec 6 23:10:20 EST 1995 Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 23:00:21 -0500 From: Alex Eulenberg Subject: Optometrist offers $ for vision improvement Status: RO X-Status: ------- start of forwarded message ------- From: ws@ix.netcom.com(William Stacy ) Newsgroups: sci.med.vision Subject: Wanna Bet? Date: 7 Dec 1995 00:28:24 GMT Bill Stacy, OD: >I think that the only way you'll ever convince us skeptics of these >things is to have one or two of us skeptics measure the subjects >before and after therapy. I hereby offer my services for such a >validation at no charge. The only catch is that the subjects would have to come to the Sacramento, California area for validation by me. Dennis Yelle: >But Bill, if you measured a 4 diopter improvement yourself, you would >no longer be a skeptic, and the other skeptics wouldn't believe you. Bill replies: >I would certainly document my pre and post therapy degrees of >skepticism, publicly on sci.med.vision. If I were transformed, believe >me, that *would* be news. >I don't think anyone will take me up on it. If it really worked, I >would think they'd clamor for the publicity. >How about if we make it financially attractive both ways? >Take a -4.00 myope and put him/her through therapy (no contacts, no >surgery) and the payoff according to the following schedule: >ENDING REFRACTION > 0.00 or any + amount I pay $1,000 and become a total convert >-0.25 to -1.00 I pay $ 750 and become a convert >-1.25 to -2.00 I pay $ 500 and become somewhat converted >-2.25 to -3.00 I pay $ 250 and retain some skepticism >-3.25 to -3.50 We break even and remain skeptical >-3.75 or more The therapy provider pays me $1,000 and I rest my case once and for all >The therapy period would be 1 year maximum. I would want an immediate >$10,000 penalty, agreed to in advance, for any rigid contact lens wear, >surgical intervention, or blood glucose manipulation that occurs within >the 3 year period beginning 1 year before the start of therapy and >ending 1 year after the end of therapy, regardless of the outcome. The >discovery of such violation could occur any time within 7 years of the >end of therapy. >In the event of patient or therapist drop out, I receive $500 as a >default penalty, unless it is for good cause (medical emergency, death, >etc.), in which case the trial is terminated and nobody pays anything >(and we try again with someone else, if agreed to). >Any takers? >Bill >William Stacy >O:BASE Ophthalmic Systems >ws@ix.netcom.com >http://www.cybergate.com/~lovelea/obase.htm ------- end of forwarded message ------- ========================================================================= From owner-i_see@indiana.edu Wed Dec 20 10:56:28 EST 1995 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 07:18:22 -0800 From: ws@ix.netcom.com (William Stacy ) Subject: Vic's improvement Status: RO X-Status: Vic wrote: >(...) >so hey doc Stacy do I qualify for some of that cash? you can have >access to my records for the last 5 years from the same optometrist. > >(...) The .62 diopter apparent improvment is right at the zero $ value, tho' I'm happy to hear that you're going in the right direction. I'll really be impressed when you find yourself nearer to 0.00. Bill ========================================================================= From owner-i_see@indiana.edu Thu Dec 21 21:16:11 EST 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 95 16:57 PST From: Beyond_20/20@Sunshine.net (Beyond 20/20 Vision) Subject: Re: cash Status: RO X-Status: >> From: ws@ix.netcom.com(William Stacy ) >>ENDING REFRACTION >I dont think you can go from -4 to -1 in a year, but you can certainly >do it over a few years. I have never heard of anyone changing that fast. Vic: I have seen the subjective findings in some cases, and others the retinoscopy findings change this fast when an active Vision Therapy is undertaken. The difficulty is th variablity of the findings and therfore the repeatability. It will depend which day and at what time, the person go= es to the Doctor's office. Bill: I came in on this a little after the initial posts. Are you referring to a best visual acuity refraction or a cycloplegic? Will you be comparing retinoscopy with the manifest subjective? Thanks, Robert-Michael Kaplan. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------ Have you read the new book: The Power Behind Your Eyes? Deepak Chopra, M.D. says: "This is an important book that can help you create a new vision for your life". ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------ Snail Mail Beyond 20/20 Vision=81 RR#5 Site 26, Comp. 39, Gibsons, British Columbia. V0N 1V0 Canada Voice (604) 885-7118 =46ax (604) 885-0608 =20 ========================================================================= From owner-i_see@indiana.edu Fri Dec 22 01:56:53 EST 1995 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 22:46:11 -0800 From: ws@ix.netcom.com (William Stacy ) Subject: Re: Cash Status: RO X-Status: Kaplan says: Bill: I came in on this a little after the initial posts. Are you referring to a best visual acuity refraction or a cycloplegic? Will you be comparing retinoscopy with the manifest subjective? Thanks, Robert-Michael Kaplan. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- ------------ Have you read the new book: The Power Behind Your Eyes? Deepak Chopra, M.D. says: "This is an important book that can help you create a new vision for your life". Bill's answer: Haven't read it, but from what I hear Chopra's pretty far out there... I was referring to the manifest refraction as measured by neutral practitioners (who *must* be unaware of the bet, of course). Bill ========================================================================= From owner-i_see@indiana.edu Fri Dec 22 02:28:48 EST 1995 From: Vic - Deus Ex Machina Subject: Re: Cash Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 18:14:52 +1100 (EST) Status: RO X-Status: >_From: William Stacy > > To which I now say: > > By the same token, if you regress to -2.00 -1.00 (only -.25, which is > well within a std. deviation) you will be dangerously close to owing > me money. not much chance of that. thank you very much. > But he said: > > I dont think you can go from -4 to -1 in a year, but you can certainly > do it over a few years. I have never heard of anyone changing that > fast. > > My retort: > > Go for it. Good luck. But if you want to bet dinero, we've both got to > put up some dough with a neutral party, say any recognized bank or > bookie. > > I'm here and willing... finding a neutral party could be interesting since I am half way around the world. you are not exactly puting up much cash for the effort involved though I must say. nor do I have a spare 1000 I can afford to have sitting around for a year. bet or not I intend to keep going... Vic ========================================================================= From owner-i_see@indiana.edu Fri Dec 22 18:55:16 EST 1995 From: Vic - Deus Ex Machina Subject: Re: Cash Date: Sat, 23 Dec 1995 10:42:54 +1100 (EST) Status: RO X-Status: >_From: William Stacy > > You wrote: > > >>_From: William Stacy > >> > >> By the same token, if you regress to -2.00 -1.00 (only -.25, which > is > >> well within a std. deviation) you will be dangerously close to > owing > >> me money. > > > >not much chance of that. thank you very much. > > Not much chance? I'd say there is, since + or - .37 D. is the margin > of error in refraction. I think we can do without the cynicism. and the discouragement. > >(...) > > >I intend to keep going... > > Couldn't hurt. Let me know when you get to 50%. That will get my > attention. good. shatering world views is one of my favourite past times. Vic =========================================================================